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TheKoopaKing's avatar

The funny thing about the claim that "consciousness is an illusion" is that this is a perfectly apt statement of the thesis of illusionism within philosophical contexts. Words like "illusion" and "hallucination" are given technical meanings in philosophy of mind. "Illusion" is taken to mean that you see an ordinary object in front of you, but you misperceive some of its properties, like perceiving a white wall as pink due to the pink lightbulb that's illuminating the room. "Hallucination" is taken to mean that you don't see any ordinary object in front of you at all, but instead see something completely "in your mind," like a mirage in a desert or a dream while you're sleeping.

"• Fully successful cases of perception – cases in which an object is seen and seen correctly or “as it is” – will be termed perception or sometimes veridical perception.

• In contrast, “illusion” refers to cases in which something is seen, but seen incorrectly or “as it is not”. Illusions includes cases in which a round object is seen to be oval, a blue object is seen to be green, or a tall object is seen to be short.

• Finally, the term “hallucination” refers to cases in which it seems to the subject as though something is seen, but where in fact nothing is seen. Classic examples include Macbeth’s hallucination of a dagger and Hamlet’s hallucination of his father."

The above is from page 15 of Philosophy of Perception by William Fish.

"In an illusion, it seems to S that something has a sensible quality, F, which the ordinary object supposedly being perceived does not have."

"The assumption that hallucinations are possible means that you could have an experience which is subjectively indistinguishable—that is, indistinguishable by you, “from the inside”—from a veridical perception of a snow-covered churchyard, but where there is in fact no churchyard presented or there to be perceived."

Above quotes are from The Problem of Perception SEP entry.

So saying that "consciousness is an illusion" in a philosophical context means that there is something there - consciousness, but we misperceive some of its properties - which is effectively synonymous with the central claim of illusionism, that introspection is unreliable and affords us a mistaken view of the properties of consciousness. The real absurdity would be to claim that consciousness is a hallucination, because you would be denying that you are conscious but are still perceiving something, and presumably perception is in part constitutive of what it means to be conscious.

Also worth noting that representationalism is the most popular view among philosophers according to the Philpapers survery (https://survey2020.philpeople.org/survey/results/4894), and the entire point of representationalism is to oppose the "there is no appearance-reality distinction in consciousness" dogma by allowing for nonexistent intentional objects, giving an account of misrepresentations (illusions and hallucinations), etc. As you might be able to tell, this view is entirely compatible with illusionism. So philosophers are also displaying their lack of familiarity with the bulk of work done in philosophy of mind over the past half century when they think "consciousness is an illusion" is some sort of self own, in conjunction with the ridiculous reading-the-name-of-the-view-and-critiquing-what-you-think-it-means style they're going for.

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Next Paradigm Philosophy's avatar

The “illusion” involves the mistaken notion that our experiences include certain properties that they do not in fact include. Illusionism does not hold that people are “not conscious.” This is ambiguous. The illusionist holds only that people are not phenomenally conscious, where phenomenal consciousness is a form of consciousness characterized by phenomenal states. There is no good reason to exclude “phenomenal” from one’s description of the kind of consciousness illusionists deny.”

Illusionism is about phenomenal consciousness. We’re talking about phenomenal consciousness here. That’s a very good reason to exclude “phenomenal” from one’s description of the kind of consciousness illusionists deny. It’s obvious one is talking about phenomenal consciousness when one says illusionists hold that people are not conscious. The conversation in which that kind of statement would be made is about phenomenal consciousness.

“Failure to make this explicit is a misleading because the claim that “consciousness itself” is an illusion could be mistakenly interpreted to imply that the illusionist doesn’t think people have experiences,”

the illusionist doesnt think people have experiences. the view is or obviously implies phenomenal consciousness or qualia don’t exist. what is experience but in instance or set of instances of phenomenal consciousness or qualia?

“ or mental states, or feel happiness or pain, or see red, or have emotions, or any of a variety of other notions that could taken to be implied by such a remark, when an illusionist may very well maintain that we do have experiences, feel happiness and pain, and so on, and may simply disagree about the nature of these phenomena.”

from my point of view that’s contradictory because to maintain that we do have experiences but deny that we have phenomenal experiences is just to maintain that we have experiences and deny that we have experiences. i dont know of any sense of experience other than phenomenal experience, and i’d be really curious to see someone try to define or convey any other sense of experience but phenomenal experience.

“Illusionism is a technical position which involves the rejection of certain phenomena distinguished by certain technical terms. Shifting over to the use of semi-colloquial or at least philosophically ambiguous and underspecified terms like “consciousness” without qualification is misleading. It’s sufficiently misleading that I think it would be fair to call it irresponsible for a philosopher to bluntly assert that illusionists think consciousness is an illusion.

A philosopher might maintain that phenomenal consciousness is the only genuine form of consciousness, and that to deny it is to deny consciousness, full stop. But even if one holds such a view, an illusionist isn’t obligated to agree, and probably wouldn’t. Baking your own preconceptions or views into your characterization of opposing views that would probably dispute that characterization is not a good way to describe other people’s positions.

Why can't critics of illusionism even begin with a clear, accurate, and unambiguous characterization of the view? “

i don't agree that there is any reasonable degree of ambiguity here. again, the whole context of the conversation is phenomenal consciousness. obviously that’s what’s being talked about.

“Spencer Case offered a reply which reflects what I consider to be one of the weakest objections to illusionism”

I consider it a knock down argument against illusionism.

“The rough idea here seems to be that you can't be subject to an "illusion" of conscious experience, because this illusion would itself be a conscious experience.”

and there is the knock down argument.

“Pointing out that conscious experience does not involve phenomenal states (or "qualia") does not mean that one denies that people are conscious in any respect at all, “

but i dont people are objecting to the proposition that people are not conscious in any respect at all. i think they are objecting to the proposition that people are not phenomenally conscious.

“”Illusion” as a term, merely reflects the view that people think that things are one way, but they are really some other way. The notion of being mistaken about what’s true, in this respect, as with any other, does not require that one believe that the “illusion” people are subject to is itself presented to people phenomenally. “

i think it might actually require that. what does illusion mean if not that things seem one way but are actually another way? and what is seeming other than a way something is like from someone’s point of view? that’s qualia and phenomenal states or phenomenal consciousness. hence the illusion is presented to people phenomenally... as with any illusion.

“So the illusionist is such a profound idiot that it didn’t occur to them that the only proper sense of “illusion” presupposed the very thing they denied."

well, yeah, unless there is some sense of illusion other one that just cashes out in terms of phenomenal states or phenomenal consciousness. but is there any such sense of illusion that doesnt just cash out in terms of phenomenal states or phenomenal consciousness?

“Of course illusionists don’t think this, and of course “illusion” as a term is merely a label, a term of art adopted to serve as a rough analogical characterization of the kind of mistake they believe is occurring. That they think people are making this mistake, and have opted to call it an “illusion” does not carry, in itself, any weighty philosophical substance.”

don’t they mean that people mistakenly believe they are phenomenally conscious or have phenomenal states in virtue of some illusion?

“The invocationof the term illusion, in other words, is’t staking ground on the nature of illusions.

Of course, a critic could insist that they only meaningful sense in which something could be an “illusion” would be in the phenomenal sense, but an illusionist could (a) simply deny this and (b) it really wouldn’t be relevant. The illusionist can drop the term “illusion” and analogies to illusions from their account and characterize the position without reference to illusions, e.g., “

but that would just be to shift the claim.

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